Roy:Of Kenya’s major political figures, you
are the only one who established a political base in Nairobi and took
spectacular risks with it first when you resigned from your Ford Kenya
parliamentary seat to run on an NDP ticket and then in 2007 when you ran
for the presidency, exposing yourself to the possibility of possible
presidential success on one hand and parliamentary failure on the other.
Yet you have never quite been able to shrug off the tribal chieftain
tag. Explain.
Raila: You see, politics has a
lot of propaganda. Sometimes, propaganda is stronger than the truth,
than the reality. There is no politician in Kenya who is more urbane
than myself. One, as you know, I grew up in Kisumu, which is a town, and
also in Nairobi here. I went abroad and then settled in Nairobi in
1970, and I have been living in Nairobi all these years barring the
years when I was in detention. And I chose to play my politics from
here.
There was a lot of pressure on me to go and run in
Kisumu when my father was running in Bondo and I said ‘no’, I will make
my base Nairobi. This is where I live, and this is where I know the
people.
And I also wanted to work with the poor people (of
Lang’ata). I said, I know these people and these people trust me and
this is a multi-ethnic constituency. It has helped me to understand
other communities in Kenya.
See, in the past people have come with the
assumptions that Kikuyus will not vote for me in Lang’ata; they have
always been shocked and surprised. In 1997, I ran for the Presidency,
and you will see there is a difference between my presidential votes and
my parliamentary votes by over 6,000. I got more parliamentary votes
than Presidential. Why? The 6,000 are the Kikuyus who voted for me as a
Member of Parliament but voted for Kibaki as President.
(Laughs loudly)
Sometimes they talk of rents, and say, ‘Oh, people
are not paying rent’. You see, in a place like Kibera, it is fairly
cosmopolitan.
The problems are faced by all the poor people who
live there – the Kikuyu, the Luo, the Luhya, the Kamba, Nubians – are
all speaking the same language. So, when I speak, I speak on their
behalf. I cannot champion the interests of any one group. Their problems
are common.
I have chosen to represent Kenya rather than go
back to a safe rural constituency because I don’t want to fragment Kenya
and I wanted it to be a catalyst to unite the people. That’s why I have
been saying that I am the bridge between the past and the future.
Look at now, for example, these last elections.
Look at how the votes were; I got votes from Nyanza, Western , the whole
of Ukambani area, the whole Coast, Upper Eastern, the Maa community –
they voted MPs elsewhere but presidential votes went to me – the
Turkana, the Teso.
So you can see the difference, they have the
parliamentary majority, but the presidential votes came to me. You look
at my opponents, basically from their communities, from their base. And
if you look at Western, there was a candidate running there.
But if you look at the kind of votes he managed to
get compared to what I got … If you look as well at the votes I got in
Central and Rift Valley, where Jubilee got the majority, you’ll see that
I am the only person who had the complete geographical spread of the
votes across the country.
Q:Jubilee supporters were
apprehensive that the Mutunga Court, as it came to be called, would be
biased against them, given the Chief Justice’s sentiments towards you as
he has expressed them in the past. But the court returned a unanimous
verdict against your petition. There was no dissent. Now, every person
who knows him will honestly say Dr Mutunga is incorruptible. So he was
convinced about your loss. Have you lost a friend?
A: His conscience will disturb
him. Ordinarily, it would not be a unanimous verdict. Each and every
judge should write their verdict giving their reasons for it. For
example, at The Hague, you had one dissenting judge and he recorded why
he was dissenting; those two who were of another opinion, also wrote
their judgment.
This is the most important case that the Supreme
Court has handled since it was formed, maybe the most important in
another five years to come. Some of them will be retiring at that time.
They should have at least had the courtesy to
record the judgment individually – each person says because of ABCD, I
dismiss, because of ABCD, I dismiss, not just to come there and say, we
agree ABCD, yes! ABCD, we agree, yes! Yes! Yes! Then say that we are
going to give a detailed judgment in two weeks’ time. Then when the two
weeks come you are not ready on a Saturday, Monday, you are not ready
and on Tuesday when people are assembled in court and you have invited
them, they are expecting that you are coming to read a judgment and this
was something that was so important for the country. Only for them to
come and say “we are signing”. So obviously, it was something that they
are ashamed of, or afraid of their own judgment. Now they are even
correcting certain areas.
To me, it was a shame and I’ve said that people
make mistakes; we say mistakes are human but I don’t know what went
wrong, but I’ve mentioned earlier that stakes were too high, that
blackmail could not be ruled out, apart from other methods of persuasion
(laughs loud and long).
Q:As election returns have
shown, millions of people believe that you are both qualified and
deserving to be President. In the face of a third failure to achieve
your objective, some are now talking about your being constrained by a
primordial obstacle, that it hasn’t got with how much you try or how
sincere you are. It’s simply unattainable. Address this issue of
destiny, faith and philosophy.
A: I have never been superstitious. When it
reaches the angle of fate (starts laughing and almost doubles over with
mirth) no, no, these are the beliefs of people who are basically
superstitious, people who believe in supernatural powers to do ABCD
(still laughing). I am a scientist and I believe in a scientific world
outlook, I believe that nothing happens just because it has happened or
is preordained to happen; I believe that something only happens when
there are efforts to make it happen.
I also don’t believe there is anything impossible
in this world. I believe that things are possible. But I also want to
say that it must not necessarily be Raila; like now, I am not even
saying that I am going to run again because that is too far-fetched now.
We have just come from an election. I am always willing to support
somebody else.
The last time we went for a nomination and if I
had lost I would have supported somebody else. I came up with Kibaki
Tosha and people thought that I had committed political suicide. Many
told me that Luos could not vote for Kikuyus, but I said, ‘I’ll show
you.’ And I convinced them.
More Luos than Kikuyus voted for Kibaki. In fact,
James Orengo was a presidential candidate at that time and Kibaki got
more votes than Orengo in Ugenya. It doesn’t always have to be Raila, I
can support another candidate.
Q:Your physical energy is
legendary. You have always been here, there and everywhere at the same
time. How do you feel now? Excuse my phrase, how much gas do you have
left in the tank?
A: (Laughs loud and long, rocking
in his chair) Oh, oh! The spirit of the people, that’s what keeps me
going. It is the spirit of the people that buoys me, it is this spirit
that drives me. I am a servant of the people. I am propelled by the
people’s spirit.
When the people say, let’s do this, I get the
courage to move on; it is just not the physical energy, or the material
energy. You see, I faced very great odds in this election. We were
running against a team that was materially very well endowed (again
laughs loud and long). It was like the battle of David and Goliath. But
all the time I get the courage to move on because of the people.
Q:Your son, Fidel. Do you envisage a political role for him and what form could that role take?
A: You see I do not propose to
prescribe a career for my children. My father did not bring me into
politics. I came into politics by choice. It is Fidel’s grandfather,
Jaramogi, who gave him that name.
Right now he is a businessman and he will find his
level. If in future he wants to be in politics, even my other children,
they are free. They want privacy, but all the time the media wants to
pry into their lives. (Laughs).
You see, they have been saying, or there have been
allegations, that I have put my relatives in government and so on.
Which relative of mine is working in government? There have been a lot
of unfounded allegations. It’s only my sister Dr Wenwa, who is a
Counsellor in America, in LA. And I was not even consulted when she was
being appointed. She was a senior lecturer at the University of Nairobi,
and any Kenyan is free to express an interest in a job.
She was interviewed and found to be suitable and
so she was given that appointment. I think she initially wanted a job at
UNESCO but they took her to LA. But she is also a Kenyan. If you are in
government, does it mean that now it is a crime for any of your
relatives to be employed anywhere else in government? You don’t call
that nepotism.
Q:Finally, do you think you would be President were it not for the ICC?
A: (Laughs throughout the
answer). Your guess is as good as mine. Arh! ICC, to these people, ICC
was a matter of life and death. You know, everything had to be done to
ensure that they have this shield. This is like the shield – the
Presidency and the Deputy Presidency; for them, it is a shield. That is
the bottom line. That is where we are. (Keeps on laughing).
Quotes from Supreme court judges are ashamed of their judgement
Quotes from Supreme court judges are ashamed of their judgement
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